For anyone who hasn't kept up to speed with this whole affair, Richard Keys has now spoken on Talksport and apologised for his behaviour. I have to say he comes across very well, makes some eloquent points and rightly points out the rank hypocrisy of the media. He has now resigned from his post at sky, possibly jumping before being pushed one would imagine.
Andy Gray has been sacked, and we are still not sure what precisely for. The fact that he is also suing the NOTW muddies the waters somewhat. 'Dark forces' may well be at work here.
I do not for one minute condone the behaviour of Gray and Keys, but I strangely have a bit of sympathy for them. They were out of order and have admitted this, a short suspension should suffice for what was some sexist behaviour in the workplace.
I do not believe that what Gray did deserved a sacking, the reaction seems wholly disproportionate to me. My gut feeling is that this has been ballooned out of all proportion.
So just as a point of reference, what would your feelings be if they were making racist comments?
Bigotry is bigotry... I think Gray had to go given that he had "previous", and if Keys has resigned then he's done the decent thing really.
The key point is that it was done in the workplace - if two people want to have a private conversation somewhere private that's a bit questionable then I'm really not bothered and I hope that no-one else would be too much either, but once you take it into your workplace you have to know you're skating on thin ice...
Part of me wonders whether Sky were looking to offload the pair of them for whatever reason (cost savings?) and this gave them the ammunition. It's surprising that the Charlotte Jackson element took so long to surface. The other issue is that Murdoch are trying to get back control of BSkyB and negative publicity of this sort is always to be avoided during these business phases. Another part of me thinks maybe they just made themselves so unpopular with their co-workers combined with negative viewer feedback that everything just combined to bring about this end result. It was certainly pretty swift and there look to be a number of nervous presenters out there not quite sure what they dare get away with now.
As RobM rightly says, you can't bring this sort of crap into the workplace anymore which as far as I'm concerned is not such a bad thing but I can't help wonder whether in future, self-censorship will make us all a little less spontaneous and a little more poorer in the future ...
Surely the principal issue is that Gray and Keys enjoyed "role model" status. Their going gives a clear message to all those who wish to excuse or justify their (OR THEIR OWN) sexist behaviour that such behaviour is no longer acceptable (or legal in the workplace - and a studio is a workplace whether the broadcasters are on air or off air) and will not be tolerated by a majority of the public.
I think you're right. Of course what they did was inappropriate behaviour for the workplace but the way they have been vilified has been too strong. Let's face it, everyone has made sexist jokes at some point, both men and women, so for the entire world to come out and say these two are such a disgrace seems a little much and hypocritical. The problems were a) they did it at work and b) they sounded like they actually meant it rather than just making jokes they knew were groundless.
And bigotry is not bigotry, the world is not that straightforward. Race is a far more sensitive issue because the history of what has happened to black people is far more than anything women have endured in the western world. Sure women had restricitions on them in the past but they have never been taken from their homes, enslaved and treated as sub-human; as such making a sexist 'joke' does not carry the same weight as a racist 'joke'.
Jsut a quick question and maybe you people that think their comments were so wrong can answer... You say this is not acceptable in the work place? Now a footballers work place is the pitch do you think for one minute they dont say things wrongly? and if they were to shout the same abuse to a female official will that player be SACKED?
I agree completely that the things said were wrong but I do believe sacking is too strong a punishment.
great win again,,, i feel a massive momentum building up..:.. hope sky can bring in better informed & unbiased commentators instead of these bozozs.... millions watch and listen to what they said on TV.... its not just any workplace, is it?
any further rummers on butcher Macharano's link to Arsenal....? hope its only a rummer and wenger won't bring him over to our club...
As a woman, what was said was completely wrong, disrespectful and out of line. And I do believe that Andy and Richard stood by and believed every word of what was said (regardless of what Richard Keys said today)
However, I do believe that things have gotten out of hand lately and I do believe that there may have been some sort of witch hunt against the both of them.
That being said, I hope that the main point driven across was "there are consequences for every action and no one person will go unpunished"
"I have to say he comes across very well, makes some eloquent points"
did you actually listen to the interview??!
Let's not go into details about why he was sacked. The important thing is that he's gone and we don't have to listen to his utterly crap analysis any more. Him and Redknapp are the 2 most annoying pundits ever. Sky should get guys who know what they're talking about like Keown, McManaman or Hansen
amen to that.....
it seems like a set-up to me. who leaked this footage?while what they said was wrong(on every level)their views were not meant to be aired.should people be fired for having a private conversation that is politically incorrect?who can say they have never participated in an 'inappropriate' conversation of some sort while at work? if it were two women who made disparaging remarks about men would they be fired? i'm not defending their opinions but i think this whole issue raises alot of questions about freedom of speech and accountability. the world is full of hypocrites. btw, they were rubbish pundits anyway
PC gone made. Andy Gray has done more for football than Sian Massey or any other woman will ever do. Total over reaction. If Sky are really against sexism when are they going to take the porn channels off their platform, stop showing adult films and ban all adverts with women in a sexy pose?
And all those having a go at Keys and Gray - I suppose you have never made such comments in your lives? Brits are becoming more pathetic by the days.
just a quick point- if 2 females behaved in a similar way would there be such a reaction? i think not but this is just my opinion!
I don't know if you have a daughter mate, but if a middle aged man asked mine to tuck her hand down the front of his trousers at work joking or otherwise, I'd punch the cunt out.
A couple of arrogant pricks who have simply been exposed for what they are. As for the interview on talkshite the last 40 minutes we're toe curling and only reinforced how detached Key's is from the reality of his own making.
Fuck it. Don't we talk about girls when hangin' out with our friends? The thing that dreads me is that Sky are going to appoint as dailymail suggests that ugly horrible cunt Gary Neville as a replacement for Andy Gray. Imagine the pair of Jamie Redknapp and Gary Neville talking bullcrap about the Arsenal
East or West Martin Tyler is the best. But even he is no saint.
Never been a fan of the two chaps, and what they have said was out of line, but the reaction has been way too hasrh. PC gone wild. Media witch hunt went too far. As obnoxious as their comments are, (1) no one was physically injured, (2) no money was stolen, and (3) their comments didn't even involve derogatory remarks on woman's sexuality. There are people who got away scot free after committing way more heinous crimes, yet the British people get furious with non non-issues such as this.
Which btw, what would happen if the genders were reversed? A male volleyball referee botched a call, and two female commentators mocked him, OFF THE CAMERA, by suggesting that someone ought to teach that poor fellow the proper rules. What would happen? Do you think the media and everyone would lynch the two ladies as much as Gray and Keys? Don't think so.
Extreme feminism is the rule of the day.
guess this is how it starts. freedom of speech, ideas, attitudes, ect.
didn't my history teacher say something about this?
germany. may 10. 1933 - if memory serves.
i beleive in those days it was called un-german.
wonder what name the politically correct will give it this time..
brits are becoming more pathetic by the days.
sure are mate. try asia and have a happy life. i left that sour little country years ago.
You are right- this is a ridiculous over-reaction by the total hypocrites of Sky.
The sacking of Gray legitimises the breach of human rights he has suffered- being tape recorded without his knowledge whilst he was bantering with a colleague off air - and then making that public- is tantamount to being spied on by your employer. I hope he sues their arses off.
This is much more concerning than the mild opinions of Gray. Sure they were stupid and non-pc - big deal. How many men in football hold those views? Should they all be sacked?
Then to receive criticism from Rio Ferdinand of all people - he of the drug tests etc.
Frankly 90% of people would agree with Key's statement about Brady. The hypocrisy is staggering- where has the money come from in the team she has made herself an integral part of? the Porn business- profits made as a result of the blatant exploitation of women- which she is legitimising.
Can't agree with your opinion at all because you're basically saying racism is obviously a sacking offence while sexism is not really as serious. They are both clearly as damaging as each other to the person in question, and in principle are the same: making an unfair judgement (ie, showing prejudice) about someone based on a characteristic that has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on their ability to perform a task. Try to imagine what it would feel like if someone - slyly behind your back - said you shouldn't be in your job because you're a man/woman and men/women can't do the job you do; what's the difference between saying that and suggesting you're unfit for the job because of your ethnic origin? They are both forms of discrimination and to imply that sexism is somehow not as bad as racism is IMHO the kind of mentality that allows sexism to persist.
seems that the general feeling is the they were out of line, but that sacking is OTT
good point from anon about Sky's dodginess
the legality of them leaking all this footage from the workplace when they were off air is probably a tad dubious to say the least
the racism/bigotry line is unhelpful
these things, whether sexism, racism or whatever come down to a subjective judgement at the end of the day, you cannot package things up neatly with protocols
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