Saturday, 11 December 2010

Incoherent logic - Republik argument deconstructed

There has been a lot of talk on the Internet and elsewhere surrounding Alex Ferguson's comments regarding the below the belt chants that continue to be directed at Arsene Wenger by Manchester United fans. Firstly let's look at Sir Alex's comments:

“It should stop. There’s been a focus on fans’ behaviour and the chants towards Arsene Wenger and other managers. It’s ridiculous and I think the police should be doing more. They should be stepping in. Manchester United and their supporters should know very well the chants that have been levelled at us over the years and understand the sensitivity, and the criticism directed at members of the club itself. I don’t agree with it at all and hopefully our fans appreciate it comes to me too. I hope other clubs share the same views I do. There is enough to admire in our game without having to denigrate people.”

These are sensible and fair comments. However some Manchester United fans have spun this around in the most bizarre fashion to try to look away from a problem that a lot of them continue to condone or ignore:

"It’s that time of year again. Manchester United play Arsenal so Sir Alex Ferguson feels the need to try and placate our fans and stop us singing songs about Arsene Wenger being a paedophile by likening them to Munich chants."

Sir Alex is not trying to placate anyone, he is making that simple point that the chants directed against Arsene are completely unacceptable. The statement by the RepublikofMancunia site that these chants shouldn't be compared to the Munich chants are incoherent and nonsensical, it also rather notable that Sir Alex doesn't even mention the Munich chants specifically. Both chants are agreed to be completely unacceptable by the vast majority of fans, they are below the belt and pathetic. Certainly they are not the same, but even if he did bring them both up in the same sentence then it would not be unreasonable, it would simply make the obvious point that they are both out of order, of note he hasn't even mentioned them specifically so this is purely a hypothetical argument anyway. I am not quite sure why the RepublikofMancunia and others are getting so hot under the collar about this, someone dust protest too much I feel

Gunnerblog dismantles the arguments of the RepublikofMancunia and others very calmly and effectively indeed, his article is well worth a read, the RepublikofMancunia should take the time out to read this rational balanced argument that completely annihilates his rather childish rant. I am sure we will still be subjected to more of the same lame responses that point out that no one is whiter than white, of course no set of supporters are perfect, but this is irrelevant to the clear point in question. The point is that ignoring one's own faults by pointing out the faults of others is hardly something that makes one's own faults smaller, it's a rather weak tactic that fools no one with half a grey cell.

By refusing to address an issue that is still a rather big problem at Old Trafford and trying to live in denial a significant proportion of Manchester United fans continue to embarrass both their club and themselves. I will be surprised if the infamous Arsene Wenger chants are not audible on the TV on monday, which points to the fact that it takes more than just a tiny minority to make this kind of volume. These very same Mancunians in denial try to take attention away from their own problems by accusing Arsenal fans of ignoring racist chanting at the Emirates, nothing could be further from the truth, our club has done a hell of a lot to combat this kind of behaviour and has processes in place that are way ahead of many clubs. We should not be complacent, but acknowledging one has a problem is the first step to sorting it out, quite a few Manchester United fans still haven't made this basic first step by the looks of things.

5 comments:

dan said...

To be honest, all clubs fans sing nasty and often disgusting songs but it's pretty much isolated to away fans at away grounds as they seem to be above the law only. However it's never done at home grounds because the fans will and can be punished.
Man Utd's fans do it in harmonry at Old Trafford to the point where it's very clear and audible through the tv even with Sky doing their best to muffle it.

If it only happened at the Emirates, Man Utd wouldn't comment as there's very little anyone can do to police away support.

Steve Palmer said...

By not taking any notice of any singing or chanting from opposing fans is the best way to deal with this problem, our away traveling fans are supurb, and if they can sing and chant at the same time would cancell out most of the abuse. Wengers an old hand at this kind of thing, if he cannot see a bad tackle or an offside when its right infront of him, i am sure he can turn his hearing of at a touch of a button, hopefully we will take the lead in this match and i am sure the singers from there supporters will diminish some, make a big thing of this and it will fester.

a song for our supporters to the tune of ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS

ONWARD ARSENAL HERO'S
GOING FOR A WIN
WE'LL SUPPORT FOR EVER
YOU JUST KNOCK EM IN

COME ON ARSNE wENGER
GIVE THE LADS A WAVE
WE''LL SUPPORT FOR EVER
TILL WERE IN OUR GRAVE

COME ON ARSENAL HERO'S
SHOW THEM WERE HERE TO FIGHT
WE WANT A WIN WELL GET A WIN
IT WILL MAKE OUR FFFFING NIGHT

Anonymous said...

i left a comment on their website highlighting their stupidity in defending a statement that does not cast their player in a positive light in the first place the man is an intellectual ameoba. anyhoo guess what i did'nt pass moderation and all that's left is clever editing to make all the gunners on there look like nobs. why is anybody trying to argue this, there is no sense to what he says. rubbish in rubbish out.

Anonymous said...

oops, i meant the evra comments btw

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