So Barnet have been dispatched 4-0, the league title is ours! Well, maybe not, I always try to get very unexcited by pre-season results, they often bear no relation to how the team will perform when the real season commences. One thing that one can glean from the early fixtures is how Arsene is lining things up and who he sees in which roles for the coming year.
Interestingly Nordtveit was deployed at right back and the young Frimpong was given a first half run around in the centre of the park, one thing learnt is that in won't be a lack of physical power that stops the young centre midfielder from making the grade. It was also good to see Kieran Gibbs and Johan Djourou back fit. Pronunciation is set to be a huge problem for anyone commentating on an Arsenal game this year, the likes of Szczesny and Koscielny will not make life easy for pundits this year.
The lack of a No1 keeper is a slight concern. Szczesny is clearly the long term prospect, but for me Almunia is still by far the best of the bunch. Fabianski has been woeful and I have not been at all convinced by Mannone. Arsene is hinting that more may well happen in the transfer market and possibly a goalkeeper is in his mind; we still need more reinforcements at centre back, after all if Campbell doesn't sign on as looks likely, then we only have three recognised centre backs at the club (Vermaelen, Koscielny and Djourou) and given that one of these is just coming back from long term injury, this is not enough for the long hard season ahead.
Eduardo may be off and that makes sense given his failure to recover from that shocking Taylor thuggery at St Andrews, we have a decent array of attacking players at the club, this is why I am not keen on the club attempting to sign Joe Cole, as well as this player being overrated, we have an abundance of attacking midfielders and there is simply not a need for paying huge wages for someone who plays in an area in which we are already so well equipped.
Finally I thought I would respond again to those who seem unable to criticise Spain at all for their consistently dishonest approach throughout the world cup. There is no doubt at all in my mind that Spain were rather fortunate with refereeing decisions all the way through the competition and this was also the case in the final. The feigning of injury contributed massively to numerous soft Dutch bookings and the eventual red card for Heitinger, Iniesta was a recurrent culprit with numerous shocking dives but Villa's pathetic rolling around gave him claim to being the biggest cheat of them all.
The Spain apologists seem all to keen to point out the bad tackle by De Jong while ignoring similar filth from the likes of Ramos and Puyol. Spain have the better players and were the better team, I don't deny this, but to deny that their game involves routine cheating is to deny reality I'm afraid. That's all I am trying to say and I have genuinely lost a lot of respect for Spain over the course of the tournament as a result of these antics, they are rather reminiscent of Barcelona aren't they? The way they go to ground expecting a free kick after no contact but are happy to tug shirts and cynically clip ankles while expecting the opposition to stay on their feet is nothing but massively hypocritical and unfair. Not a surprise given how many Barca players are in the Spanish side is it?
20 comments:
Good article apart from your obsession with the Spanish diving etc. You seem to be a bit orange tinted my son! As a dutch supported I am the first to admit they were a disgrace to Holland and its football phylosophy. A realistic view of the cup would have been that at least two dutch players should not have made the final due to their non stop violence and filth throughout the early rounds (Van Bommel & DeJong). Had this happened I am sure they would have played more of their natural game in the final and possibly have won. Spain are never as good as the experts say but on the day they played the best football and were much less violent. That is not to say that their diving and cheating didnt deserve some extra yellow cards...in fact I would go as far as to say that Pique is as big a cheat as ive seen this year. BUT after all that...the dutch were rubbish and should never have been in the final and in the end got what they deserved. I just wish that was the outcome in our great league too!
Hi Pete,
I see your point and agree to a degree,
I was swung against Spain partly because of the massive media reaction against Holland which was totally out of proportion to what actually happened in the final
Overall Holland did ok in the final and could have sneaked it.
I think you're being a tad harsh on Holland in saying they were rubbish, Spain are very hard to play for many of the aforementioned reasons.
If Webb had sent Puyol off as he should have done then things may have been very different.
1979, I am disgusted by your use of such foul language. I don't mind you using words like "shit" and "fuck" and "cunt," but when you use the word "Puyol," I'm sorry, but you have crossed the line of decency!
I don't know what I hate about him more, the hair or the arrogance. He STILL thinks Cesc wants to come? He still thinks Cesc SAID he wants to come? Show me the quote, you shaggy dimwit!
It's amazing how much, and how soon, you can grow to loathe someone who doesn't even wear a Spurs, Chelsea or ManUre jersey.
Indeed.
Pseuds corner: Barca are the new Spurs.
It's time us Arsenal fans were not so docile. Once a week we should each bombard UEFA & FIFA with a letter of complaint regarding Barca's conduct which could cause the 2 bodies an Admin nightmare. Also en masse Arsenal fans should send vitriolic emails to mouthy Barca players such as Puyol & also to the stirrer in chief Balague who takes the money from Sky in this country & then attempts to unsettle the best players in the Premier League to move to Spain. Also we should deluge Arsenal with letters of complaint that the club has failed again to care for their supporter's interests by not formally reporting a club that has persistently tapped up many of our players.
UEFA
Route de Genève 46
Case postale
CH-1260 Nyon 2
Switzerland
FIFA
Strasse 20,
P.O. Box 8044
Zurich
Switzerland
www.carles5puyol.com
www.guillembalague.com
Arsenal Football Club
Highbury House
75 Drayton Park
London N5 1BU
Sorry, but your hypocrisy still stands.
You focuse only on Spain's diving/cheating while IGNORING Holland's. Holland dived and cheated throughout the ENTIRE tournament. There are even some hilarious youtube compilations of Robben's perpetual diving (and I'm a huge fan of Robben's and Sneijder and of course RVP).
I believe you are incapable of being objective in your view of this because you hate Barca and Spain (which has so many Barca players) because of the Cesc saga.
That's it. You're incapable of looking objectively at Spain. For anyone to get morally outraged by Spain's diving while ignoring Holland's serial diving really beggars belief.
AND YOU HAVE LOST ALL CREDIBILITY FROM NOW ON WHENEVER YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT TEAMS LIKE STOKE ROUGHING UP ARSENAL. For you to defend or down play Dutch brutality just because you're angry about Cesc just shows you have no credibility on this.
Marcus,
Your logic does not stand up to scrutiny.
I wrote largely in reference to the final and in that game Holland really weren't that dirty relative to Spain.
I am happy to acknowledge that MWB should have been sent off several times before the final, I am also happy to acknowledge that Robben dives. Fine.
All I am doing is pointing out that Spain have done very nicely out of some slightly dodgy refereeing and that they do exploit the rules of the game to the very limit.
So your attacks at me are way off mark. I am not defending the bad tackles from Holland in previous rounds, I am just saying that they didn't do anything that bad in the final, by the way I include De Jong's high foot in this, that really wasn't that malicious, it was similar to an Eboue red at Old Trafford that should never have been a red.
Holland may have a player who dives but this doesn't make them a team of divers like Spain. Villa, Campdevilla, Puyol, Buskets, Iniesta, Xavi, Torres etc, they have so many cheats it is ridiculous. Actually the player you accuse of diving, Robben, saved Puyol by staying on his feet when Puyol made an illegal challenge from behind and got none of the ball.
Spain are serial cheats, they are certainly not the only ones, some of the South American sides were just as bad, however most of the European sides like Holland did not cheat to anyway near the same extent.
It seems to me that you have got a bit carried away with the media going on about the 'Dutch brutality' when actually their bad tackles were relatively mild compared to what we see in England week in week out.
Thus I think you are being far from objective in trying to pretend that Holland dive like Spain and that Holland are a team of Lee Cattemole's. Other than MVB and De Jong they were a pretty clean side.
ps
you are very wrong if you think this has anything to do with Cesc
this comes from watching a lot of Spain and Barca play, it is the way in which they use their gamesmanship to win games
even Cesc was guilty of a shocking dive in the final!
1979 Gooner i'm sorry but you pick and choose everything to suit your argument.
The chip on your shoulder is growing by the day. Listen, the general consensus is that Spain were the side that played the more football. I don't think anyone is saying they are angels but many are pointing out that if the Dutch had put their minds to playing more football then they may have won that final. To summarise, Spain did some diving, some waving of cards and some cynical challenges, The Dutch did more.
Again, The Dutch were dirty, The Spanish also cheated. So there is no denial of their gamesmanship here ok?
You say Spain were 'consistantly dishonest' throughout the tournament. Fair enough. It's impossible to really prove in any way, the closest I can get is using the official Fifa world cup statistics.
Fouls - Spain, 81 - Holland, 126
Yellows - Spain, 8 - Holland, 22
As I say, statistics cannot prove anything conclusively, they can though point towards trends.
Here is where your blogging is getting tedious. You accuse anyone who condemn the Dutch tactics of being unable to criticise Spain when quite a few comments after the last blog took a measured approach and indicated that both teams were at it but Spain were lesser culprits than the Dutch. Can you not admit that Holland committed a hell of a lot of untasteful challenges throughout both the final and the tournament itself? And don't say you are just discussing the final because your accusation in this blog is that Spain were cheating throughout the tournament, something I feel is relatively unjustified. While I agree they committed some unsavoury stuff in the final, I struggle to think of incidents throughout that were of any note.
On the other hand, I remember a horrible challenge from Van Bommell in the Uruguay game and a really bad challenge from Van Persie in the Slovakia game which you have yet to get back to me on just yet. Just because these challenges didn't snap a lad's leg in half, doesn't mean that it wasn't a bad challenge.
My point here I guess is simply that I'm utterly unconvinced that Spain, as a whole, used gamesmanship more than the majority of countries at the world cup. The final has shaped your mind on Spain, I honestly cannot think in any other part of the tournament where their behavaviour was even noteworthy.
"That's all I am trying to say and I have genuinely lost a lot of respect for Spain over the course of the tournament as a result of these antics, they are rather reminiscent of Barcelona aren't they? The way they go to ground expecting a free kick after no contact but are happy to tug shirts and cynically clip ankles while expecting the opposition to stay on their feet is nothing but massively hypocritical and unfair. Not a surprise given how many Barca players are in the Spanish side is it?"
If you have lost rescpect for Spain, fari enough. However your claim that you had 'no vested interest' in the final is utterly transparent. Of course you do. And it has clearly informed your opinion of that side. Let it go, Cesc isn't going there for a bit so you have no reason to be so snipey at them.
Your claim that they go down easy, once again I introduce you to Eduardo and Eboue. I'm sorry but you simply cannot dish it out if you have two of the worst culprits in recent memory.
I applaud your passion and your writing but it pains me to see how unblanced it is. There is no real merit in any points you make about Spain because it is clearly coated in your utter hatred for Barcelona. Leave it, you have the upper ground now, get on with things!
(continued)
Some more points
1) The European sides cheated less? Watch the Italians and the Slovakians play the last 20 minutes of their game and say that again with a straight face, poor generalisation there
2) Spain were lucky to get some refereeing decisions in their favour? Boot in the bloody chest man! If Spain were lucky, so too were the Dutch.
3) Robben the hero for staying on his feet? That will be why he was screaming blue murder at the ref AFTER he missed the chance, for not ordering off Puyol. Sporting.
4) Many have said it, you haven't chosen to refer to it. What if that had been Arsenal up against those dutch tactics? Ramsey takes an accidental boot square to the chest and you would have said that it shouldn't have been a red? Van Bommel constantly hacks at the ankles, nibbles away all game and you say it is nothing?
This is the kind of stuff that has been happening all season to Arsenal and all we here is about how the players deserve more protection etc. Honestly, if you genuinely believe that that Dutch play, the tenacious, scrappy game is fine then I can only assume that when the same tactics take out Arsenal players throughout the season that you will have no problems with it?
As I said, i respect your writing but you need to admit when there is a bit of bias to it. Only then will it be of any serious note.
Anyway, i hope you can cover all my points! cheers
Dave
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1193062/Ill-leave-Guardiola-wants-Arsenal-captain-Cesc-Fabregas-focus-turns-Barcelona-switch.html
Uncle Mike, it might be from a year ago but it still quotes Cesc as saying he'd be happy to go to Barcelona. I've been there with Ronaldo mate, it is a matter of time. I think you'll hold onto him for another year. You'd imagine though that if it is a trophyless year then he will be heading home next summer. Have to respect the man's wishes if that is what he wants.
and Kipmonster, while Barca's tactics in attempting to lure Cesc is unpleasant to you, they aren't really doing much wrong. As far as I know, they haven't been arranging secret meetings with the player behind Arsenal's back. Lavishing praise upon a player is not tapping up. All these players coming out and saying they would like Cesc at Barca, well if you were asked as a professional footballer if you wanted Messi at your club, would you not say you wanted him and what a good footballer he is? I'm sorry that you find their tactics unpleasant but you also have to realise that Barca are making bids through the right channels. All Arsenal have to do is reject them.
The tactics are irritating and maybe underhand but they are not breaking any rules.
Finally, all this would go away if a certain Mr Fabregas came out and said, I'm staying at Arsenal. Do you not apportion some of the blame on him?
Dave
Dave,
I'm not going to repeat myself ad infinitum.
I watched most of the dutch games and they weren't then bad other than MVB. This sensationalist dirty dutch tag is exactly what the adjective implies.
I take your point about Italy and Slovakia, they do cheat badly, Italy especially, however on the whole the European sides were way more honest than the South American ones. The general point still holds.
The point still holds that Spain had the rub of the green in the final and the soft red card for Hietinger was key in Spain winning. That's all. I was merely reacting to the mainstream media like the BBC who sensationalised the issue when it didn't need sensationalising. It was a tight final and in the end the refereeing had a big part in turning it Spain's way.
Again, ignoring any points which defame your arguement.
Statistics show the dutch picked up 22 Yellows, the next nearest team picked up 13. Also plenty more fouls than any other side. The media might sensationalise this a bit but it is undoubted that the Dutch left the foot in a lot.
Your Europe over South America idea is ridiculous, you are just stereotyping the continents, show me some real evidence!
And again, you ignore the fact that Holland ALSO had the rub of the green in the final. I'll admit that I thought Heitinga's red was soft but it was a miracle that they made it to the second half with 11 men, even De Jong admitted he was lucky not to get sent off! (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_6257692,00.html)
As for the rest of my points, once again you have ignored them.
1) Can you really prove to me, despite what the statistics say, that Spain were "consistantly dishonest throughout the tournament"? More so than any other nation?
2) How can you criticise people for not seeing the game in a balanced matter when all you can do is condemn Spain and not even think about condemning the Dutch. Why can't you even say both teams were at it but Spain were a bit worse/more cynical?
3) If the same Dutch tactics happen to Arsenal next season, can I assume that there will be no complaints from you? If there are cries of foul when your players don't get the protection they deserve when midfield enforcers nibble Arsenal ankles then you must surely look back on this and realise your hypocrisy?
4) You still haven't old me what you thought of Van Persie's mis-timed but horrible challenge in the Slovakia. It's not too hard to say that it could have done some real damage, yet because the lad's leg is not hanging off, I assume that you choose to not pay the challenge much attention. Would you have been happy had that challenge been the other way around?
5) You accuse Spanish players of going down to easily yet have ignored my assertion that both Eduardo and Eboue have been mightily guilty of the same in recent times. Not surprising given the amount of Barca players you say. Can the same then be said for Arsenal?
6) Why can't you just admit your impartiality when it comes to Barcelona? It is clear as day. I'm not saying it is wrong, they have pissed you off. But as I've said before, you cannot claim to be impartial here.
7) Finally, Dazza Fletcher accidently puts his boot into Cesc/Ramsey's chest, ala De Jong. You telling me you would say, 'well, he didn't mean it, booking at most?'
You may have been repeating yourself before but these are points which I really want your opinion on. Please indulge me
Dave
Dave,
You are confusing 1979 with a rational human being. The idea of being fair, consistent, and reasonable, is not something that makes for good blogging.
Hence the reason why purveyors of pure logic and reason, such as myself, abstain from these lowly debates.
But you should not be disturbed, because the truth of the matter is neither Holland nor Spain actually did well in this World Cup.
1979 is basically right. Their Euro 2008 glory has only been sullied by a series of slightly dodgy performances, a lot of exaggerated diving and general cheating.
Good, honest pros like Cesc did not play that much.
But I, like many others I suspect, started the final supporting Holland, only to be bitterly disappointed by them. So much so, that by the end, I don't think anyone won the final.
It was cheat v cheat. And maybe the best cheat won, which I think is 1979's point.
But let's not ask for consistency or fairness in football blogging. Where is the fun in that.
P.s. I think this was the worst World Cup in living memory. Now that's banter for you.
anonymous,
you use skysports news as an evidence base, need I say more?
1979 Gooner what an utter imbocile you are. A snide remark does nothing but embaress you when you cannot even have the balls to admit your bias or even to attempt to answer the points I have raised.
While I can appreciate that plenty who read this will back you because it is an Arsenal blog, I'd hope that most will at least see that I am willing to discuss football in a measured manner, taking both sides of arguements under consideration before deciding which way i lean.
You, on the other hand, are no more than a glorified punter with little insight into the game of football beyond your own club.
Afraid to address points which may go against your opinion or that of your club, snide in the extreme, and unable to even see his own hypocrisy.
That's right, my quotes come from Sky Sports covering all teams. At least in trying to illustrate my point I don't simply have a link in my article leading you to another site dedicated solely to Arsenal.
Insightful and measured
Bravo sir
Dave
Dave,
you make my own point for me.
how measured and insightful your insults are, bravo, no sign of hypocrisy there.
at least spell imbecile correctly if you are going to sink to petty childish insults.
i have already answered the points you have raised several times, that's there is little point regurgitating it all again.
sometimes you have to agree to disagree with people, others can't do this and resort to pathetic insults, i can see which group of people you fall into.
don't talk about objectivity, measured comments and logic when you simply fly off the handle and start insulting people just because they have a different opinion to you, it makes you exactly what you are accusing others of!
bravo to you Dave, what insightful and measured insults, what logic and composure!
1979
Apologies for a spelling mistake at 1am. Must try harder.
Clearly i'm touching a nerve here because you are getting pretty wound up by me. Firstly, I'm not being childish, i'm not shouting and swearing, I'm telling you that your articles are unbalanced and without merit because you are blinded by the support for your team.
I called you an imbecile because your only answer to my points was simply to deride me because I had come up with evidence.
You have answered a lot of my questions but there are still plenty that you do not seem keen to even acknowledge so I shall repeat them in the hope that you might consider them.
Reading through your points, clearly I have hit a nerve. My responses might be spattered with a bit of anger at you but this is only due to 1) the fact that you consistantly ignore any points which you cannot explain away, 2) When you cannot answer my questions you simply retorted with "you use skysports news as an evidence base, need I say more?" - now that is childish.
Listen, I disagree with you but read through my points from this article and last and you will see that I have agreed that both teams cheated, my opinion though is that Holland cheated more, a point which is backed up with statistical evidence. That is as measured and as good an arguement as i can come up with. Agreeing to disagree.
You chime that sometimes people need to agree to disagree but at no point have i seen you hold up your hands and tell me that I am entitled to my opinion or that both teams cheated, all you have done is accuse the Spanish and claim dutch innocence.
So, here for you, is the questions which you have not answered, asked for a third time. If you have answered these questions as you say you have, please, point me in the direction of said answers.
1) Can you really prove to me, despite what the statistics say, that Spain were "consistantly dishonest throughout the tournament"? More so than any other nation?
2) How can you criticise people for not seeing the game in a balanced matter when all you can do is condemn Spain and not even think about condemning the Dutch. Why can't you even say both teams were at it but Spain were a bit worse/more cynical?
3) If the same Dutch tactics happen to Arsenal next season, can I assume that there will be no complaints from you? If there are cries of foul when your players don't get the protection they deserve when midfield enforcers nibble Arsenal ankles then you must surely look back on this and realise your hypocrisy?
4) You still haven't told me what you thought of Van Persie's mis-timed but horrible challenge in the Slovakia game. It's not too hard to say that it could have done some real damage, yet because the lad's leg is not hanging off, I assume that you choose to not pay the challenge much attention. Would you have been happy had that challenge been the other way around?
5) You accuse Spanish players of going down to easily yet have ignored my assertion that both Eduardo and Eboue have been mightily guilty of the same in recent times. Not surprising given the amount of Barca players you say. Can the same then be said for Arsenal?
6) Why can't you just admit your impartiality when it comes to Barcelona? It is clear as day. I'm not saying it is wrong, they have pissed you off. But as I've said before, you cannot claim to be impartial here.
7) Finally, Dazza Fletcher accidently puts his boot into Cesc/Ramsey's chest, ala De Jong. You telling me you would say, 'well, he didn't mean it, booking at most?'
You may have been repeating yourself before but these are points which I really want your opinion on. Please indulge me
Kind Regards
Dave
Dave,
all those points have been discussed, we are not going to achieve anything by me repeating the same points which answer those questions over and over again, those points have largely been addressed,
just because they have not been addressed in a way that you agree with doesn't mean that have not been addressed,
sometimes you have to grow up and agree to disagree, no matter how hard you keep repeating the same tired argument it doesn't convince me, as me doing the same doesn't convince you,
there is little point in continuing this as you clearly will not stop repeating the same arguments that have been answered until you hear what you want to hear,
cheerio
Dear oh dear
Lots of love
Dave
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